Indra Rinzler - Finding the Self through the Stars

In this interview with Vedic Astrologer, Indra Rinzler, we go deep into exploration of the self and the methods he uses to help people do just this.

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Music by Ian Hildebrand

Transcript

Arwen Bardsley: 0:00

Welcome, everybody to today's episode of the podcast and video, I want to welcome today Indra Rinzler. And I'm really delighted to have his wealth of wisdom on the show today, really looking forward to getting into this, Indra. Indra is a Vedic Astrologer. He is a philosopher. He's a seeker, and he's an elder. And I think he's going to be able to offer us so much wisdom and insight into how he sees the world. And also all the wonderful things that he has learnt along his journey, which is always great to hear from somebody and give us a bit of a spark of what we might want to look into for ourselves. So Indra, I'd like to start first of all, just with a bit about you about how you got to be where you are now, how you started on this journey. And you know why, why this is what you do with your life.

Indra Rinzler: 1:07

Yeah, well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me today. Why indeed? Why not? What else are we going to do with our time? How I got started, I don't know. I moved to California in 1970. I was just thinking and by 1971 I started going to we had bookstores out here that that had metaphysical books and astrology books, and I started reading them and astrology stuck and spirituality started, stuck with me. I read Autobiography of a Yogi Paramahansa Yogananda. Yeah, the classic book that so many people have started with. And so I became a disciple and lived in a spiritual community of Yogananda devotees for 20 years before I started on my own search, I guess I graduated and, and went out into the world and then I found the Enneagram of personality at the time, and, and at that moment, it was clear to me that there was a relationship between Enneagram and astrology. And I was lucky enough to meet a man who taught me a system of how to see Enneagram in in astrological charts. And over many years after that, after meeting this man, before I actually started my own practice of professional astrologer, and coming up to 1000 readings, I was a world traveller for 20 years and have worked with seekers in India and Rishikesh where I used to hang out in the winter, before COVID. And and in Thailand and taught in those two countries and yeah, my teachers, more teachers than India, and it's just why Yeah, why not? I think it's the, I think it's the, if we trace back all of the stops and starts of our life, all the threads of our life, I think we'll find a common root or a common thread up to the sky either way up, you know, higher in or out, it's the same. So that's that thread is that that thread is spirituality, that thread is depth, the thread is divinity, the thread is consciousness, the thread is something deeper than our own ideas and our own illusions and our own thinking in our own wisdom.

Arwen Bardsley: 4:08

Mm absolutely. So I'm curious when you first began reading those astrology books in the 70s Were you reading about Indian astrology? Or were you reading like Tropical Western astrology?

Indra Rinzler: 4:26

Yes, Dane Rudhyar. And yeah, and you know, those that ilk. Those were the people and I kind of got to a place where I didn't know what else to do with it. I didn't know they said and then you and here it is, you know, and then what do you do with it? And 19 like 1975 And so I kind of put it on the shelf for a while. I mean, I won't even say that I consciously put it on the shelf, but let's say it went on the shelf. And I've had this experience since in a channeling experience, where they say, you say I want to write a book and they say, okay, drop the idea. And now work on yourself. That's the quickest way to write the book. And, and so the idea that by, by, how can you? How can you learn about something if you drop it? It sounds counterintuitive, but there's a lot of counterintuitive in life. And so what it is you work on yourself. And so I had the experience recently, there is a particular chart, that Navamsa chart, I don't know if you've ever heard of it?

Arwen Bardsley: 5:47

I have heard of it. Yeah.

Indra Rinzler: 5:49

Okay, so I've known about it for 20 or 25 years, and it never did much for me, because when I read about it, it didn't really make much sense. And it seemed I don't know, superfluous. That's probably my arrogance. It's just a word I picked that's not what I thought. But anyways, so in the last two months, or about two months ago, I, I got involved with some astrology, astrology group for, you know, one of the one of the first times in my life because I've always been kind of independent. And then somebody talks to me about vibrational astrology and harmonics. Yeah, which I didn't really know is a new thing that that the book hasn't been written, but it's, you know, well developed. And this harmonics is the same as the divisional charts. And all of a sudden, I read the same books that I've had for 25 years, and realize the value of this Navamsa chart. And I can start sharing it right away, because I've already done my homework on astrology, that I already understand the astrology and how I interpret a chart and they give me this new chart. And I used to look at that chart as the spouse that's the D nine in the Navamsa is the spouse chart. And so I said, Well, is it is what is it? So then I come to realize that it's actually that they call it the, it's the perfect spouse? And so who is the perfect spouse? The perfect spouse is yourself.

Arwen Bardsley: 7:20

Yeah.

Indra Rinzler: 7:22

And so and then they say, Well, it's the fruit of the tree. And that means that it's sort of the end of life chart. And, and with those two sentences, all of a sudden, I have a complete awareness of what this chart is, and started offering it in my readings. The first couple of people, I said, Well, now look, I've only been with this thing for three days. And I may change my opinion, but let me tell you what I can see. And everybody says, this is incredible that that what I found is that the 65 year olds are already living the chart, the 50 year olds are well aware of the aspects of where they're going, even if they're not actually living it. And even the 20 fives are sort of clued in to where they're ending up. And and I don't have a problem that I didn't understand it for 25 years. Because because that's only the mind that would say that the fact is, is is that perhaps I wasn't ready for it.

Arwen Bardsley: 8:23

Yep.

Indra Rinzler: 8:23

And, and in that I don't find any fault, or any limited thinking or any lack. It's just the way that my karma is, if that's the right word, my the reality of it is, I'm a bit of a late bloomer. And I would tell the story, that at the beginning of September, I sent off my first official 5000 word, major astrology article, and I said that I was so happy to do that. And it wasn't the problem that I waited until I was 75. And it's a great article, but I don't really I'm not attached to whether they print it or not. And yesterday, I got word that it's been edited and they want to they want to go forward with it in an astrology magazine.

Arwen Bardsley: 9:13

Great, congratulations!

Indra Rinzler: 9:15

Yeah, so I mean, I feel really good, but I didn't I don't feel any better. Because if I felt it felt better than than if they don't print it, then I don't feel good. And that's not really where I want to be. And so the fact is, is that I felt good. That that in in in eight or 10 years of working on my writing, and 20 or 25 years, plus 25 years of working on astrology. I felt ready to make this expression and that's okay. That I don't find that there's any anything lacking in that.

Arwen Bardsley: 9:52

Yeah, yeah. Now that's really true. I mean, I I have been working in you know what I do now as a healer and then I've only you know, I've only been working with astrology for one year but working as a healer for I don't know six or seven years now but yeah you know I would sort of at first be thinking and saying to myself and even saying to other people I wish I had have done this you know, like I always knew that I was meant to do this but I didn't do it but now I'm more yeah more down the path of you as well in terms of just going look this is when I was meant to do it then I had enough life experience who knows you know, it just was that was the right time for me it wasn't before I before I was ready, so everything happens for a reason. Absolutely. So then what so did you get into the Indian Vedic Astrology more when you were exposed to that culture?

Indra Rinzler: 11:03

Well, no, well, yes. But yeah, I lived in I had a I had an Indian guru. Community was full of Indian disciples, not not Indian nationals, but I mean, yeah, people devoted and so we had Vedic I had a Vedic Astrologer. Vedic Astrology over here. I don't, again, the term came in the late 80s. And in the 90s, it started appearing but there weren't really many books at that particular time. But I had a friend who became who was a Western astrologer who became a Vedic Astrologer. And, and before 99, when I got the Enneagram, I would be I would listen, but I wasn't really interested, but not that interested. And I had a reading, but it didn't, it wasn't anything that I felt inspired to do. But when I got the Enneagram, that particular weekend, and I saw the connection between them, then all of a sudden I got on fire for I want to do this astrology and I want to do the enneagram and I want to do them together and I and I need to. And I want to, quote unquote need to share the mahadashas, the great periods because I felt this to be a particular teaching that was very unique and really important for people to understand. And so at that moment, this became, while it had always been kind of a life goal at that particular moment, it became more immediate, and I found a man who has perhaps the only system in the world that explains how Enneagram and astrology work together. And he was probably the most esoteric person I've ever met. And he taught me a lot besides those, but he gave me a lot of hints. It still took me many, many years before I developed it into my own system. And that seems to be what my pattern is. I've had teachers in India and I say, Look, I've taken some of what you've said. And here is it okay, if I if I use it, and they say I don't recognize it as my work because I make it my own but the idea is is that that I have planets on the on the what I call the right side the the seven through 12 and the 10 planets on those side are galactic gases and so I can understand and feel connected to the larger concepts really easily but putting words on those concepts was never easy. And with the teachers that I sat with in India, Indian but mostly western, they gave me a languaging they had the languaging and so I would use phrases I would get phrases and then things would it would be like a tree root that it would just sort of expand out from there that little little tidbits of my personality as such if I get a little tidbit then I can grow on that and then whole whole well the whole reading the three hour reading I do kind of progressed from from all these ideas plus plus a background still with Dane Rudhyar and and the and the classic astrologers. I don't read too much modern what you call modern astrology because it's I don't know just isn't so interesting to me. But But I do read the classics and I'm more interested in the energy of astrology, the energy and yes, the energy age, or power yoga, the energy age and I do believe I make a distinction between Kali Yuga, which was the lowest, densest age and Dwapara Yuga and astrology Kali Yuga is rigidity and fixed ways of thinking and you're kind of stuck in your sign and you're kind of stuck in your life. It's it's a little bit like the caste system in India that you're kind of stuck at a level, castesystem is very Kali yuga. And it's about power, it's about energy. And so there's freedom. There's, there's self expression, there's energy that the planets energize us that it's an energy that we feel from them. It's not that there's anything wrong with the planet. But, but but the dignity, the quality of energy, and the sign that it's in, creates a a disease, a an edginess, and so if a planet so planets have high sides and planets have low sides, and on the low side, then we act out, we act out of our conditioned behavior, we act out from compulsions and and we compensate in our behavior for what we're lacking. And so it's a way to explain it in a way that nobody is wrong. There is no good or bad, it just is. And it gives people a way to, to, to overcome it. If that's the right word to see beyond it. It being their difficult planets. And that's, that's, that's my approach. So where did that come from? I have no idea. You know, it was given to me, it just, it just appeared all of a sudden, I remember with my teacher in 99, I'd say something. And he said, but did you read that? And I said, I think I did. He said, I think you made it up. I said, maybe you're right. And, and whether I made it up or whether I read it. I don't really know.

Arwen Bardsley: 16:52

Well, you didn't make it up anyway, you knew it. So just before we, uh, cuz I definitely want to get into this Enneagram astrology thing, because that's absolutely fascinating. But before we do that, can you because I think you know, probably a lot of people who will participate in this conversation may not even understand the difference, the main differences between what they think of as astrology which is really modern Tropical Western astrology, and, you know, the traditional Indian astrology that you're you've kind of being more drawn to can you just give us some key differences?

Indra Rinzler: 17:40

Sure. So what I like to say is the Western astrologers don't agree with the Western and the Vedic don't agree with the Vedic or the Indian astrologers. They don't agree with each other either. So the fact that they don't agree back and forth, I don't really consider that to be a problem. Basically, the planets are the same, though. I don't use the outer planets. There are some we don't use it traditionally, in Indian astrology because it wasn't in they weren't known at the time they were practicing it. And so and we don't I don't use as I don't use asteroids either. So we just use the inner planets. And we also use the South, the north and south node. Which are called, which are called Rahu. And Ketu,and they are considered to be planets. The houses are basically the same, there would be some different definitions. But I don't think that's that's not really important. And that the signs, the 12 signs are used in the same so the biggest difference is the sidereal chart versus the tropical chart. This is the way that we cast the chart. And it's the I like to say it's, at one time, it's the most important concept, and it's the hardest to understand. So the way that I explain it is that tropical is based on the seasons, the relationship between the Sun and the Sun and the Earth. And that is that March 21 is Aries one, spring here in the northern hemisphere, every year, and in sidereal sidereal means star, so we take into the stars behind the sun. So we're on the earth, and then we look to the sun. And then we look behind and what we see is that the sky behind the Sun is different every year because it's on a 26,000 year cycle, called the precession of the equinox. And the two systems were the same around 400 AD, but now they are 24 degrees difference, that's 1500 years. 72 years equals one degree. So that's the main difference.

Arwen Bardsley: 19:47

Okay. And then there are some differences as well though, because as I said before we started recording. So what I practice is Um, Western sidereal astrology so and I think probably we don't put as much emphasis on the north and south nodes, although they're definitely used. But then there's also a whole lot of other concepts in what I understand in Indian Vedic Astrology that come in that we also don't use in western sidereal astrology. Is there any quick way to to just highlight what they are?

Indra Rinzler: 20:30

Well,that is that is true, that is true there, there's definitely more differences that don't really bring them out because then it gets over people's heads and it isn't simplistic, but yes, there are aspects can be more important to some astrologers than others. And these these concepts are not necessarily only tropical versus sidereal or tropical versus Indian, you have aspects you have in Indian, we have the yogas, which are combinations of the ruler of this and the ruler of that and, and, and their, you know, and and you those, all of those things, it's not so much what I do. So I don't really make a distinction that there are, but but there are people who who look at I mean, you know, I've explained recently in location astrology, that we start talking that there are two, when we ask you, when you were born, when and where were you born, we're fixing two qualities, that's time and place. In location astrology we change place. But we keep the time the same but there are astrologers that change time. And there are astrologers that I have read, I haven't studied it particularly but they they'll use a conception chart when you're conceived. And first first breath. And so people say, well, well, how do they know that? And I say, Well, I don't know how they know that. But the point is, is that they base their chart on on that, on those on those on that that particular time. And so each chart has its own frequency and vibration. And so it'll, it'll tell you something different. And so if you, if you have a what we call a ruler, or a yardstick, I know you don't use a meter stick if you have that. So you're going to figure out a spatial distance with something. So that gives you an idea, you're measuring something by spatial distance, but if you have a scale, then you're also measuring but you're measuring weight. And so you're measuring different things. So it's a different frequency, the different vibration, you're measuring, but you're measuring different things. And so, so with these different qualities, depending on when you cast the chart on time, or whether you use sidereal or tropical, or whether you use aspects or whether you use you know, as I said, the dignities are the most important thing to me, they're like, you know, they're so far ahead of the race, they're, they're at home, you know, sitting in the hot tub, by the time everybody else finishes the race as far as what I consider to be the most important aspects of a chart. And and so that is, that's just that's, that is Branding, you know, yeah, I don't know why that word came up. That's just how you want to do it. That is just, you know, whether you consider the north and south node to be really important or, or, or separate. That's really completely different. It just as a musician, might do acoustic, they might do rap, they might do rock and roll, they might do blues, you know, there's still music, it's still the same 12 notes, you know, the same notes, eight notes.

Arwen Bardsley: 23:39

Yeah. And I really strongly believe it's, yeah, it comes down to the intent of, you know, of the reading. And so it doesn't really matter what method you use, as you know, the the intent can be the same. So yeah, totally, because as you said, we're talking about energy here. And, you know, yeah, I totally agree that it doesn't really matter what system you're using.

Indra Rinzler: 24:06

And how many, how many healing clients have you had that say to you, that they heard the same thing, but from completely different healing modalities? You know, at different times in their life, they heard the same thing.

Arwen Bardsley: 24:19

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about the Enneagram. And yes, especially this this way that you've combined the two so to start with, can you just explain briefly to people what the Enneagram is.

Indra Rinzler: 24:35

So Enneagram is a Greek term that means nine sided figure, and it's a it's a combination of three geometric shapes which is the circle, which represents unity, a, an isosceles triangle, which has three points which represents the law of three which is triads, active, passive and neutral principles, and the thing called the hexag, which I like To say it's like a fancy paperclip that has six points. And so these three are combined. This was given to us by Gurdjieff, who was some of the younger people that's not so aware of who he was. But he's really was one of the fathers of the New Age. The New Age Movement, if it's a movement, New Age reality, starting to teach in Russia in 1916, he was a totally mysterious man, he gave us the Enneagram figure, he never told us where he got it, or if he made it up. And it was his students student, who, who put who was a psychologist who put personalities at these points. And so the Enneagram of personality are nine, that there are nine personality types. And it's an archetypal system, I believe it's the archetypal system, it is the system to unwind the 2 to 5000 years of the Judeo Christian tradition, conditioning, crappy behavior that we pass down from one generation to the next. It's a way of uncovering that, because that's a psychological tool. They only look at behavior, and there's no end game. But as a spiritual tool, it is unique, because it has no bias. And it gives us the core triggers and help to help us to get back to the moment.

Arwen Bardsley: 26:16

So why, when do you think that that it's useful for people to do an Enneagram? Reading, I suppose is what you'd call it.

Indra Rinzler: 26:32

Well, they can they there's a simple test, there are tests, simple tests, word tests, in fact, in your part of the world, there's, there's a, I have a friend down there, and there's a group down there, maybe you're aware of it. But anyways, you can take a simple test online, and you can and for most people, they can figure out the number and they can read about themselves, then they can start learning I would say at any age, I mean, there are people that don't like to do it for young people. You can do it or not do it I don't want to go into that particular debate. But the fact is, is that it helps you to understand yourself, it helps you to understand your relationships. Yeah, it's I was married to my first wife for 25 years and at the end we got the Enneagram and while we had loved each other, we had never stood understood each other and then we understood each other with the Enneagram then we can understand how we tend to think that everybody is the same as ours, but everybody comes from their own separate vibrational story and when we can see that it's a theme that we've been talking about that you that you grow even though you may not grow specifically, you may not be studying psychology or working on yourself, but if you study the Enneagram you start to learn yourself better and then you have and then you're you're more compassionate and more understanding towards other people.

Arwen Bardsley: 27:58

Oh, yeah,it's I've actually only recently done it just this year for the first time. So I did find it fascinating. I'm a nine just in case you've got any advice for me Indra?

Indra Rinzler: 28:15

That's interesting because I sometimes I was feeling six and I sometimes feel people in their where they're at and so you're a tad stressed nine goes to six and that's what I'm feeling. I felt it was a six

Arwen Bardsley: 28:29

Okay, interesting no, I'm a nine with the with a 1 and an 8 is the wings, is that what they call them?

Indra Rinzler: 28:37

Yeah, the wings. Yeah, you're you're the you look thin. So they're mostly the ones the one wing and they, they, they, they they get territorial, when they get triggered. They get territorial, particularly around the kitchen that all of a sudden, you have to you have to cut certain ways and you have to wash dishes certain ways and and don't use the wrong pot. And so I have a nine wife who can be very one ish and I always check because I don't want to create disharmony.

Arwen Bardsley: 29:08

Yeah, yeah, well, in a nine definitely doesn't want disharmony.

Indra Rinzler: 29:14

No, I don't want to create disharmony.

Arwen Bardsley: 29:17

So Alright, so let's, this is,

Indra Rinzler: 29:21

by the way, I'm, I'm, I'm a seven.

Arwen Bardsley: 29:24

You're a seven. Yeah. So So I was just thinking in my head, then I'd really love to read more about the other signs. Signs! Numbers! Is there a good book that you'd recommend?

Indra Rinzler: 29:38

So the book I recommend is called the Wisdom of the Enneagram by Hudson and Riso. R-I-S-O I guess, and it's the classic book it's a it's spiritually based and it's easy to read and it's really in depth and has a lot of unusual stuff. I say any book will be helpful. You can read tons of stuff for free. If you just Google Enneagram, you'll you'll be inundated. But the book is the Wisdom of the Enneagram. That's the one I suggest it's about 20 or 25 years old.

Arwen Bardsley: 30:14

Okay, great. All right. So tell us about the combination of the Enneagram and astrology, because that really does fascinate me.

Indra Rinzler: 30:25

So the systems that exist, that people talk about is mainly a one to one. In other words, Saturn is a one, Mars is a two, I should say the Enneagram has the nine points, and they're given numbers one through nine, and there's no hierarchy. And they also have names. But of course, people don't agree on the names. So we use the numbers and so so most of the systems are one to one. But the fact is, is that we're much more complex than that. And my teacher was given a Vedic he was a Catholic at birth, and could hear and he was a hermit. And he could hear everything. And he could, he knew, and he was given Vedic Astrology at 15. And he was in totally intuitive. And so he was able to go deep with it. And the fact is, is that we're complicated people. And so there are quite a few markers for each point. And markers are astrological signs that are that work for to express the Enneagram points. And so a couple of markers for nines would be as they tend to have really good planets, they tend to have a lot of positive dignities. And the dignities is the strength of the planet, depending on what sign that it's in. So why should they have positive is because nines know that you come with nothing and you leave with nothing. So why work up a sweat in between? They don't have a lot of challenges. And so they tend to have very good dignities in their in their chart. Okay. And so that's one aspect. So another one that I've been given that's really surprising is they don't have a planet in in the fourth house or the 10th house. So why the fourth house and the 10th house? Why is that empty for nines. So the fourth house to me is about heart. It's it's your grounding in your own being. And ultimately, when you have a planet there, then you can open your heart. And, and 10 is about career in mundane. But it's it's your action in the world. And so what's the action in the world is love. And so nines have a lot of energy around heart and love. If you say heart and love you'd say, well, that would be a nine. So why are those planets empty? Why those houses empty? It's because their heart and their love is a story. It's not real. It's the story of heart and love. It's not actually hard in love. How does that feel, you understand?

Arwen Bardsley: 33:00

I do, yeah, yeah.

Indra Rinzler: 33:03

So so they have an empty fourth and 10th house which was a total surprise to me because you'd think that they would be good at that. But the emptiness is is that with the houses you make up a story, because you feel that lack?

Arwen Bardsley: 33:16

Yes, yeah, the energy goes there.

Indra Rinzler: 33:19

Okay. And so another one would be around Mars, so the Mars anger is repressed. And I find that that both nines and ones in Enneagram world can have the when I say these things, this might be in 30 or 40% of the of the nine charts you know, um, it's not 100% But these are markers and so they do appear there are people who, who I will never there'll be nines and I'll never recognize it in the chart and then there's other people I can recognize right away and and so another would be with the Mars is the Mars is in the 12th house. Well, why is that is because it's a transition, it's an ethereal house, it's a transition house. And so their anger is not earthly planed. And so they hold back their anger, they're not able to feel their anger and and then doing Mars is the plan to doing and so and so they're not able to do because it's in the 12th house. So that's another marker. One more would be Ketu the south node in the first house. So why Ketu or the south node in the first house? Because because the because if there's a detachment in Ketu, that Ketu has a detached energy and so in the first house, that's people who are detached from themselves. That's that's one definition of a nine.

Arwen Bardsley: 34:41

Okay, yeah. I don't have that and I don't have my Mars is in my seventh house.

Indra Rinzler: 34:49

Okay, well, it's not a universal

Arwen Bardsley: 34:51

No no I get that, yeah. And I shouldn't keep talking about myself because this is not about me. I'm gonna have to book a reading with you now.

Indra Rinzler: 35:04

So you wouldn't be the first podcaster to do that.

Arwen Bardsley: 35:08

Yeah, I'm sure. All right. So yeah, so basically really useful for, again, for people to understand themselves better and how they, you know, react and relate in the world.

Indra Rinzler: 35:28

So, let me, let me let me see, can I sum it up?

Arwen Bardsley: 35:31

Yeah, please.

Indra Rinzler: 35:32

Sum it up a a little bit for you. So the idea is, is that so that if I tell you as a nine that you you hold back your anger? And you say, okay, you know, I, you know, you might say, you seem old enough that you would say, Yes, I do. But if you're younger, you may say, Well, no, I don't and you know, it coming out explosive is it's holding it back. That's, that's not compulsive behavior. I call that the high side of the low side. So so but then if I showed in your chart, and I say, now you're you've got Mars in the 12th house, and it's really hard for you to express your anger because you're disengaged from it because it's ethereal, then you might go, Ah, so I'm getting a perspective that it's not only that, I do it, and it's part of the nine story, which I'm not quite understanding, because I, because it's too painful to go into it. But oh, I can see that my Mars is difficult for me to access because it's because it's in the 12th house and, you know, yadda yadda, that just different aspects of it, you get to see it in a different way it's a different languaging. And, and this, this can open people up to hear things that they can't hear that they couldn't hear before.Can't hear, but they couldn't hear before. And so, you know, with healing, you sometimes have to say things twice, you sometimes have to try it differently. As a as a customer, you go to different healers, because because you say, Well, that can't be right. And then you go to the next one, and they say the same thing. This is how this is how we are I had a nine client recently who I suggested in location astrology that she moved to the west coast in America, now from the from the Midwest. And she she wrote me, and she said that her mother and her sister had already told her that before, but then she hadn't listened. And now she heard it. Because I explained it in a way that she I could show her relocation chart, I could show it in a way that she could, she could, it really blew her open it changed her life right there. In in, in for her to allow herself to, to, to feel her own needs to express herself to to do for herself to be engaged in her own life. This is nine story. And she was able to hear it and and that's okay. Things. There are things we need to hear three times there's things we need to hear 10 times there's things we need to hear 20 times again, that's okay. That's just part of it. That's that's not a, there's not a lack in us. There's not a you know, maybe I could say that it must be a deep issue, if you have to hear it 20 times, and it might be a deep issue. But other than that, I cannot find any good or bad related to that. It's just the way things are.

Arwen Bardsley: 38:31

Yeah. Okay, thank you for that. And then the wheel of totality. I have not heard of that. I don't know anything about it. So I'd love for you to explain that.

Indra Rinzler: 38:44

Okay, so the wheel of totality is a is a modality that was given to me. And I don't think anyone else in the world uses it. It was given to me by spirit. And I love it. People say I don't think I've heard of it. Nobody's heard of it. And so the idea here is, is that I believe that there is awareness that the it's about the empty houses in astrology. So you may like this. So what it is, is that in a reading, we talk about the houses that have planets, we don't really talk much about the empty houses. And if we do talk about them, then we may talk about the ruler of that house, and yadda yadda and I like to say if you're going to have an operation, do you want the doctor on Skype? Or do you want him there with you? And so I want him there. And I consider the ruler, halfway across the solar system is not much energy in that house. And so each house has awareness. But because we don't have a planet there, we have a blind spot around that awareness. And so I use the empty houses. Now I'm not using the outer planets, and I'm not using any asteroids. I'm only using the inner planets and the north and south node of the moon. I don't use the outer planets because they move slower and the more generational and I think it's noisy for what I'm trying to do in this in this particular modality. And so we overlay your natal your your sidereal natal chart, I happen to use Yukteswar's Ayanamsha, their adjustment, rather than Lahiri. And that can change a little bit sometimes for people but anyways, I overlay it onto the chart and where I see houses, that's where you have an awareness of the energy in that particular house. And I've given awarenesses I've given awarenesses and maybe I should go through those the one through 12 the awareness of each house. So the awareness of the first house, and and so people say is this, so is it astrology. So this is way before astrology this is this is astrology is very mundane, this is this is a very high frequency. This is way before astrology is ever invented, even thought about. And so the first house is really about discovering who you really are. And people that have a planet there have an innate ability to discover who they really are. And people that don't have a planet there have trouble identifying themselves in order to discover who they really are, who they really are, is essence it's an onion, you have to peel. So the second house is about duality. That the duality that that, that black and white thinking and that the people that don't have the people that have a planet there can think in gray, they can see options, the people that don't have a planet there tend to think in limited terms black and white thinking. And they can be judgmental and critical from that they have a limitation in their thinking. So the third house is about mind. And so people that don't have a planet there have trouble seeing through the mind, they don't have the monkey mind, because they don't have any planets there. But without that planetary energy, they can kind of get stuck in their thoughts, even though their mind is not racing, racing racing, the fact is, is that and they're not living out of their mind. But the fact is, is that the ideas come come up, and they can have trouble seeing through that. So the fourth house is about heart. As I said before, the fourth house is heart. And so the people that don't have a planet there, have trouble grounding in themselves. And so they have trouble opening their heart and feeling compassion, they may feel compassion for all animals that have ever lived, and that are living, and they may have compassion for people, but they probably don't have compassion for themselves. And the fifth house is about God. And so God starts is giving our power away to a man on the throne, it eventually becomes the awareness that there is a cosmic intelligence, and with that cosmic intelligence, then you can trust and accept what is if you don't have a planet there, then you have trouble trusting and accepting what is. The sixth house I call practice, and practice is staring at a candle or doing yoga and meditation, it eventually becomes in totality. So I I forgot to mention that the the graphic for this is totality at the center, and then the concentric circles out of the awarenesses. And then the activities in that house, a concentric circle further out. And so, so practice the six house on the on the on the inside by totality is living 24/7 in undisturbed consciousness. And so practice is about learning to as you learn to stretch your arm up. In yoga, you need to learn to stretch your being stretch your mind, in the physical plane world that the practice is to take it into the physical plane world. The seventh house is seeing through conditioning. And so people that don't have a planet there have trouble seeing through conditioning. And so while they can be really strong and very opinionated, they're still holding on to childhood concepts from family and society. And I had a lady yesterday, she really listened to all of her what her friends were telling her, 26 year old, listening to what her friends told her because she doesn't have a planet there. And she can't see through the conditioning and the ideas. The eighth house is no separation. And so people that don't have a planet there don't understand that there is no separation that we are all connected. And the ninth house of separation, excuse me is emptiness and emptiness is about everybody can understand emptiness in nature, but the people that don't have a planet there, by the time they get back to the car, they're thinking about groceries and what are they going to eat for dinner? The people who have a planet there can stay with emptiness, for much longer emptiness is, is the same as silence is same as silence but it's not no noise. It's no story. So it's an emptiness within themselves. And and the point being that if you have a planet there then you have an ability and an understanding of emptiness. You have an ability to do that it doesn't mean that you at birth are empty it means that you have an understanding there and so you can go deeper with it. If you don't have a planet, then it's a foreign concept. And we don't really work on these until the late 40s or 50s. And why is that is because in 20s, and 20s, and 30s, we're working on ego, we're not really working on our deficiencies. So the 10th house is about love and love becomes an attitude, it doesn't need an object. And and it's universal. And it's just a way that you, you open to to life. And the 11th house is realization realization is the is the surrender, the realization is the opposite from the fifth house, it's the eternal trusting it's the knowing that there is a place to get to beyond this. Beyond this. Beyond duality, but above or beyond my understanding that there is a goal that there is a place to be there's a way to be that's beyond my understanding. That's the realization. The people that don't have a planet there. They, they don't understand that, that they tend to think in terms of worldly goals, but more than worldly goals, they can be very spiritual, but they still have trouble finishing off because they don't quite understand that there is a place beyond me. Where that where that if they let go of themselves, and they'll have everything. And the 12th house is transcendence and impermanence that everything changes. And people that don't have a planet there have trouble with changes, they have trouble accepting the mundane changes, they have trouble accepting the universal changes people that have a planet there, they flow with changes well. They see that as a permanent as part of life that change that things happen that things change, and it's okay.

Arwen Bardsley: 46:49

Hmm. Wonderful. So So you so in your readings, then you're just kind of bringing all those three things together for people is that it's kind of just one thing, then Is that how it works?

Indra Rinzler: 47:08

Yeah, I would say it is the full life, what I call the full life reading, I take at least three hours, it can take longer, depending on the complications of people and, and and how much they have any questions they have. And their understanding. Some people have more complicated situations, some people have done a lot of work. And so it's not, it's not as complex. So So I would in three hours, I would spend about an hour and a half, usually on Enneagram. And then an hour or so on the astrology including the Navamsha. And then I would spend the last half hour with the wheel of totality and then summing up, and then I do a tarot card reading at the end. I like to say that the Tarot. Well, it's it's it's a short thing. It's a short thing. But But I read the reading and I like to say that I talked for three or four hours, and then the Tarot card book takes it down to eight words. You know, it takes what I said down to eight words. And this happens most of the time. Maybe it's 12 words on some people, but it's very, but the the affirmation at the end for that particular card is is exquisite. And it really just backs up everything I've already said usually.

Arwen Bardsley: 48:22

Yeah, yeah, amazing. And so is that the only service that you offer, do you want to tell us about other things that you do as well.

Indra Rinzler: 48:33

so I've added location astrology. So the location astrology is, I call that the power of place. And the idea being that you can make place you can change place in your chart that where you were born, it might have been Aries rising, but if you go 2000 miles east or west, it's not Aries rising anymore. And so you can cast what we call a relocation chart for different places. And and, and so you become these different charts. And so if you've got your you say, your Mars, I think I heard you say Mars in the 7th House. So if you move to, to Perth, all of a sudden that that Mars is going to go into the eighth house, and all of a sudden, instead of working on relationships, they're working on transformation. And, okay, Perth could be two houses away. So um, you know, don't quote me on that, but, but the idea being that, that, that we can change and that change has a lot of ability for us because it's, it's like when we travel and we get new perspectives. And so those are real, we get new perspectives because while we take our own personality with us and our own grievances and challenges, the fact is, is that we have all of a sudden, you know, we're not seeing you know, my seventh house Sun, it's nice to get that out of into a different house and and I had a client who had a stellium, three houses in the 11th house. And I thought when she moved to, I forget where, when she moved to a place that had it in the first house, I thought that that was really good for her. Because in the 11th house, it's, it's, it included her Sun, and I think she needed to really get that into out of 11th house, which is really good. It's like ending, it's like the, it's like the orgasm without any of the workup. And now the orgasm is great. But, but you know, whatever the experience is, you know, you it's nice to have that, that pre and that understanding. And so as we move around, we get these planets, they get a different perspective. And so I also do Astrocartography, which is a, it's a, you take a flat map of the world, and the lines are drawn on it, the lines of all the planets are at the first fourth, seventh and 10th house, it's zero degrees first, fourth, seventh, and 10th, they are considered to be that those are the cardinal houses the cardinal signs. And so these particular points of zero degrees are said to be the most direct energy. And so we can then see graphically, where you move to a place. You can see in a place what lines you have near you. When you live in a place where there aren't a lot of lines, it seems to be not a very good place for people. I mean, if you were, you know, my age and you wanted to live on top of a mountain, a place with no lines probably would be good, because you'd have no energy. But other you know, younger ladies that I have worked with, as clients, they say there's not much energy there because because there's no lines. And so we can look with the astro cartography we can actually find a place, you know, like I had a client who was who was in her Sun Mahadasha. And I tried to suggest to her that she that she should move to a Sun line I think she was also a nine. And that coming into the sunlight and her Sun, her six years of Sun Mahadasha great period, I thought it would really good for her and I could I could I could see where that is on the astrocartography shows me exactly where that is. And so we can have a we can we can you can give me a place and I can tell you what the energy of that place is based on the location and based on the astrocartography, but with the astrocartography, I can figure out a vibration for you. And I can find a place that has that a vibration being a collection of planets or are a line particularly that would be very relevant to things that you're trying to work on.

Arwen Bardsley: 52:47

Oh, that sounds awesome I've definitely got to do that. Okay, yep. And yeah, is there anything else that you want to tell people about that you can help them with?

Indra Rinzler: 53:06

Oh, okay, so I can answer the hard questions. I can make sense of things that don't, that don't make sense out of anything. I tend to see people at crossroads. A lot of people come when they're about to go into a new planetary period, these, these periods are they they're long, and so they average in 45 years, you might only have had four of them, you know, you might be entering your fifth or entering your fourth. And so those are particularly important. And so I tend to find people people come to me, they find me somehow they, they they like the way I look, or my energy aura it may not even be it's not physical. And but it's at the shows, if you do the shows, you know, they come up to you. Why do they come up to you? Yeah, no, they just feel it. The people that read my board at the show, they're not the ones that sit down, the people that sit down are the ones that they just walk up and sit down. I need a reading from you. You know, they don't know what it is that I do. So so I can help. I can work with people that are young, I can work with people that are old. I do. Some people I do, what I call finishing off is that they just want to know if there's any blocks left. And, and particularly with the wheel of totality, I can go really deep into things that they may not be aware of, or they may be. It's not actually it's not that I tell people things that they're not aware of. And quite often they're aware of it, but they haven't put it together. It's like the puzzle, I put puzzle parts together. They've got the part, but they haven't put the puzzle together and I can put the puzzle together in a way that people don't really understand before that and and so it's it's a it's a I call it a transcendental experience, because the people the people are not the same at the end even if they never work with any of the material and never hear the talk again. There's the session again, it's all recorded and made available to them. If they never hear it again, they can't go back in the box. Well, they can go back in the box if they totally ignore it all. But that takes a lot of effort. So. So yeah, I can work. I work with people of all ages. And in all situations all over the world. I've had people I have people from your part of the world and, you know, Tasmania recently and New Zealand recently, Australia, South Africa, and plus, even, you know, local to here and in California, USA. So. Yeah, I'm not sure what else I can say. It's, uh, yeah, you contact me. And it's a sliding scale. And it's, it's not for everybody, it can be intense, you can adjust the intensity based on how much you want to reveal and how vulnerable you want to be. But but the idea is, is that it's, people say it's a very warm space that I provide, there's no it I say its essence to essence. It's not about there's no judgement, there's no right or wrong, it's essence to essence, we're talking about personality, but we're not talking from our personality or to our personality, we're talking from our higher selves. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a overview. You know, I use this example, for people to understand, especially if they have challenges, a lot of challenges in their chart. So when they get a little discouraged, I say to them, Well, okay, so, so I don't know if this is true, but let's just imagine that we, that the right before we begin our life, we sit down with God at a table. And and and we and he says, Okay, you're going to have another life coming up, what should we do? And we say, well, I don't know. And he says, Well, you know, I've been noticing a theme, yada, yada. So maybe we'll yada yada this time. And you say, okay, and then we get down here? And so why have I got all these challenges? And so one way I can there's the Well, there's two things that come to mind, how I can make sense of it is one is because it's not so much that it's our karma, but it's things that we have to learn. And then the other side of the challenges is, is is why do we have these challenges, because once we learn them, then we can teach them.

Arwen Bardsley: 57:33

Yeah,

Indra Rinzler: 57:34

and because everything, because everything that we teach is something that we're trying to is something that we're learning, the reason we're teaching it is because we need to learn it. It's not because we know it, it's because we're learning it. And that's why the newer people in like maybe any organization, but a spiritual organization, it's the new people that show the new people around because they've got all the enthusiasm, and they're, they're fresh, and they're interested. The older people are they you know, their own Swaha you know, whatever, you know, it's a wonderful place. And, and you'll find that out for yourself. They just don't share on the same level. And so the idea is, is that what we're, what we're teaching is what we're here to learn, and and it's only the mind that wants to make sense out of the perceived limitations.

Arwen Bardsley: 58:25

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. So the best place for people to find you is that your website, Indra?

Indra Rinzler: 58:35

Yeah, the website would be the best place, Indrarinzler.com and my email is indrarinzler@gmail.com. And it's all one word. And I suppose they can spell it if you want. And maybe it's, I'm sure it's on something.

Arwen Bardsley: 58:52

Yeah I'll put it in the notes.

Indra Rinzler: 58:56

R-I-N-Z-L-E-R So that that's the best way and yeah, I'd love to connect with anybody that that is open to exploring,

Arwen Bardsley: 59:09

exploring and doing the work. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today.

Indra Rinzler: 59:15

Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Wonderful to be with you. Thank you so much.