5 Star Wellbeing Podcast
5 Star Wellbeing Podcast
Overcoming a death sentence to create a meaningful life
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Discover the fascinating and important story of how musician and life coach, Kevin Roth, overcame the death sentence of a Stage 3 cancer diagnosis and created a more meaningful life.
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Music by Ian Hildebrand
So welcome, everybody to today's episode. I'm delighted today to have a wonderful new guest who I'm really interested to hear his story and share that with everyone. So I'm welcoming today musician Kevin Roth. Kevin is an internationally renowned singer, writer, and dulcimer player with over 50 recordings. He's won numerous awards and been recognized by major companies including Time Warner and Sony Music for his unique talent. The reason which some people might be thinking, Oh, a musician, why are we doing that on 5 star wellbeing podcast. And the reason is that Kevin has a really interesting story to tell from his more recent life, about his battle or overcoming melanoma. And that was one reason so a death sentence of stage three melanoma that he overcame, which I think is super interesting. And I really am interested to hear in the about the process that Kevin went through. And just the things that he felt he he or learned that he needed to change in his general life to overcome that. But secondly, Kevin has also developed something he's called dulci meditation. And as everyone knows, I'm a huge fan of meditation, use it a lot in my work, am always recommending it to you guys. So I'm really excited to hear about that as well. So welcome, Kevin. I'd love if we can just start off with you telling us about a bit about you your origin story, your why, how did you get to be where you are now. And especially interested, I'm sure you'll take us through it, but the first record deal at 15 years old is pretty cool. And also, before you go any further, I'd love you to just explain what a dulcimer is and how you got into that particular instrument as well.
Kevin Roth:Well, thanks for having me. It's nice to talk with someone from down under. So this is a dulcimer. This is the mountain dulcimer. This particular instrument is one that I helped design and I call it a wink dulcimer. It has planets as sound holes. It has four strings. And it's this particular model is a redwood top and Sherry back and sides. And then it has a little thing on the bottom where you can plug it in. And it has a micarta fretboard and it's built by one of the premier dulcimer Builders here in the United States in Mountain View Arkansas called the dulcimer shop. And they're sort of oh, they're known as a top of the line companies like anyone who buys something from the dulcimer shop like a mixpad dulcimer or a wink. The reputation is impeccable. So I'm very happy and very proud to have gotten with them. The dulcimer is a mysterious instrument really because nobody knows its history. Much like me. Which we'll get into! I get a little goofy, so I just want to put that out there first. It may be the California vibes I'm not sure.
Arwen Bardsley:Great! But the dulcimer is really a relative of the zither. So in different parts of the world, there are different types of dulcimers, the Norwegian Langlick the Swedish humble the friendship and the DeVos. But if you look at old photographs of really old dulcimers, there is no specific shape or size to them, unlike the guitar or the piano. So it has always been an instrument of innovation and creativity. What's interesting about that is when I first saw the dulcimer, which was 1973 I saw a young woman playing it in a kitchen. And how I ended up there is is sort of a remarkable story. And I'll just I'll take a few seconds to tell you that. My mother had just passed away from a heart attack. And a friend of mine introduced me to a guy who said hey, do you want to go to a meditation gathering? I didn't even know what it was. And I was still in such shock that my mother had just died suddenly that I went So, you know, nothing happens for no reason. And that's where I met this, this friend of mine who's been a friend now 50 years, Anne Stokes, at the time. And I saw the dulcimer, and I just absolutely knew this was my destiny, no question about it, None. Absolutely none. And I just fell in love with it. And I didn't know that there were other dulcimer players out there that had been recorded like Jean Ritchie and some traditional folk players. So I didn't know there was a style. So I got the dulcimer and I had been playing the piano by ear. So I just assumed that I could play somewhere over the rainbow on the dulcimer or Jacques Burrell on the dulcimer, anything I wanted. Then I, I decided how I came up with this idea, I still can't figure it out. But I decided, Oh, I'm going to become rich and famous playing this instrument. So, I sent a couple tapes to some record companies. And of course I never heard from I could barely sing I could play pretty well, it was about a year or two. But I hadn't studied voice at that point. But one company, which was the largest and still is the largest folk music label in the world, called folk way records, wrote me back and he said, I'm interested in a tape of your dulcimer playing Can you send me more pieces? So his name was Moses Ash. He's a real legend and he passed away many years ago but folkways is now part of the Smithsonian Institute, which is a big deal here in the States. What he heard was this young kid who did things on dulcimer, no one ever thought of. And I, he signed me and I did my first album at 15. It came out at 16. It was called Kevin Ross sings and plays dulcimer. And I caught the dulcimer wave, the mountain dulcimer starting to become more popular and more popular through people like Joni Mitchell and folk singers, The Rolling Stones and but I became known as one of the world's most innovative dulcimer players, you know, so they said, Oh, this guy, Kevin, he's a genius on the dulcimer, I don't really think I was. What I had was that I didn't have any idea how to play it except the way I wanted to. Which is one of the things that I teach people when I do personal coaching, because I'm also a personal coach, as you know, the limits are in your mind, the world is a blank canvas. So I I did, I think a dozen records for him. And then I got into children's music and started my own record label. And hit sort of the big time with that having sung the theme to a major television show called Shining Time Station for kids. And as they say, the rest is sort of history. And by the time I was I guess 34,35 I was quote rich and famous. The money didn't last but the fame seems to have hung around. My desire to be well known, and my desire to be rich, my desire for everything that I went after, was to be happy. And I thought fame and fortune would make me happy. And it does not. I think that when I thought another house, another car, another relationship, another piece of clothing, another dulcimer. They are things that aren't wrong, but they're pointers to what we all want, which is happiness, which is our true nature. So when my clients say, you know, I want to be loved I say Well, guess what? I got a lover for you Instantly. Instantly, no dating apps, none of it? They say yeah, I say yeah, you, you have to fall in love with you first. But the dulcimer was my life raft because I had a turbulent childhood. Which I pre saw, by the way, in a vision when I was a young kid, I saw that the first part of my life would be difficult, which it was the second part of my life would be even more difficult but very successful, which it was. And the third part with that would be and I say this with I guess as much humility as I could come up with as spiritually enlightened as I could possibly be and very happy. And that's now happening. Full circle, so I don't really have any interest in Kevin Roth the performer anymore, although it seems to be gaining speed, because I don't find any value in fame or fortune? I, I just don't. But it took a death sentence to figure that one out. So do you still perform though?
Kevin Roth:I do rarely. Mostly because of COVID. And if you book me if you want me to come sing, I won't do it unless I get to speak to audiences about my coaching and the spirituality, and the meditation. Because that's what's important. And then everyone says, Well, yeah, but you've gotta sing. I sing, I like to sing, and I'm starting to write a new album. Now. I don't know what it'll be or when it'll be but I'm I'm still a musician. But I'm a changed, I guess, individual.
Arwen Bardsley:Yes. Yeah. And yeah, definitely want to get into that. And I Yes, I did see the bit about the the television theme song, but it didn't mean anything to me. And I thought I'll probably I don't know if that came down to Australia.
Kevin Roth:It might not have. It was based on Thomas, the tank engine. It was big in the United States and England. Europe, it's it's got a bigger cult following now on YouTube.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah.
Kevin Roth:And that was just, that was an interesting luck thing that I ran into or fate. Because the Producer said that they were doing a show and it was going to star Ringo of The Beatles. You guys know who Ringo is?
Arwen Bardsley:Yes. Yeah, of course.
Kevin Roth:And he asked me to do the this sing the theme. But he was only going to pay me work for hire, which means a one time payment, not royalties. My music attorney said absolutely not. So I went back and I said, My lawyer said absolutely not. And he said, Well, I understand and I'll respect it, we'll get someone else to do it. But if it's a hit show, you can write your ticket. And it was the first and only time I went against what my lawyer said. And I said, I'll do it and thank God, I did. Because I could book myself in any concert hall in the United States, and have a full house because I was known for singing that one song.
Arwen Bardsley:It's amazing. Isn't it? The power of television?
Kevin Roth:Yeah, the medley of my hit. Yeah. You know, what's funny is that people generations have grown up listening to me. So sometimes I get a fan letter saying, oh my god, I just saw you on YouTube talking about your coaching and your out of body experiences. I thought you were dead. It was like 30 years ago!
Arwen Bardsley:No, here I am. So, um, when your mother died, and you first saw the dulcimer, what age was that?
Kevin Roth:13, 14.
Arwen Bardsley:13. Okay, right. And so, yeah, a couple of years later, the record deal. That's amazing. Okay, so let's get into the melanoma story, because I'm dying to hear that. So firstly, did you? Was it something that you were having symptoms? Did someone point something out on your skin? Did you have regular skin checks? How did that come about?
Kevin Roth:Well, I always had regular skin checks, because I lived in Florida at the time, everyone should see dermatologist at least once a year. Whether you think there's anything wrong or not, it's a good thing to do. Especially with global warning, warming, and the ozone layer and all that. There was a tiny little freckle on my nose. And the dermatologist in Florida said it's nothing to worry about. And I decided after a series of events that I was going to leave Florida, and I was going to move in with my sister in the Midwest, and travel the country to see where I wanted to live next and what I wanted to do, because I had, I was taking sort of a sabbatical leave from the music business. But before I went there to Kansas, I had, I guess what you would call a psychic impression. And one of the impressions is that I should go to Kansas, and it would be a respite to work out all the stuff I was going through on a personal level. But there would also be a major illness, and I would be fine. But it would be quite a ride. And then I would probably go back to California where I'd lived 25 years ago, and I had no idea what this illness was because I was perfectly fine. And within a month of getting to Kansas, I had to set up all my doctors. And one of them, of course, was a dermatologist and I went, and he said, I don't like the look of that on your nose. So they did a little biopsy of it. And they said that it was something called 'in situ', which means not cancer, but on the verge. So they removed it. And I thought, Well, okay, I got a scar on my nose, but at least I don't have cancer. And then about four months later, I was shaving and I found a lump under my chin, and I thought oh this is not good. So they discovered that the in situ on my nose was in fact, melanoma and they diagnosed it incorrectly. And now I had stage three melanoma. And they said that these were the oncologists, they said, basically, there's no cure. And there's a 70% chance that this is going to return within a year, and you'll be dead within two or three. So I was given a death sentence. Now the interesting part of this as I didn't believe them, my gut told me, they were absolutely wrong. And I went to three oncologists, until I found one I thought knew what they were talking about, that felt right to me, yet, and I found he wasn't taking any new patients. So I had to go see somebody. And I did see this one woman who scheduled a body scan. And the results came back, and I went in to get the results. And she said to me, imagine this, you're sitting in an office, and you're waiting to hear if cancer has spread throughout your body. This isn't like, hey, what do you think we'll have for dinner, this is like, and she said to me, almost in one long breath, the cancer hasn't spread anywhere. So I'd like to schedule you with Dr. So and so because I we should have, you should have a lymphectomy. And my jaw hit the floor. And I thought, first of all, what's a lymphectomy? And it's where you remove all the lymph nodes. And then I said to her, why, if there's no sign of cancer, would you want to take out lymph nodes? And she said, It's protocol. And I came about as close to hitting someone in my life as in that moment. And I said to her, my name isn't protocol. And if you don't see cancer, you're not touching me. And she said, Well, you don't understand, Kevin. It's probably in your system microscopically. I said, well, then you might as well just cut me open and take everything. And I got very upset. And I went to check out and as I checked out, I saw a doctor who I wanted to see card on the counter. And I said, Does he work in this office? And they said, Yes, but he's not taking any new patients. And I said, Well, he's gonna take me, and he's gonna see tomorrow. And of course, I got a dirty look. And but I said, I'm not leaving. I'm seriously not leaving. I'm seeing him, Dr. Gower. And she found an opening at eight o'clock in the morning. I was there at 730. And he was the only oncologist that said, we should do nothing. And just wait and see. Because a lymphectomy if there's no signs of cancer, it's protocol. But so, you know, the moral of the story is that you have to trust your gut. You can't always listen to doctors because they're not always right. But the other moral of the story, the biggest moral of the story is that I had a year to wait to see if this was going to kill me or not. It's not like, Okay, we're gonna take an x ray, and we'll call you on Monday with the results. This was like, there's a 70% chance you'll be dead. And it'll probably come back within a year. That's a long wait. So I fell down the rabbit hole. I thought if I'm going to die, and if this is gonna take me even though I don't didn't think it was and it didn't, and it never came back. I said, I got to know who I am. What I'm doing here. What matters. Because I'm not living this life that brought me cancer, which was stress, money, new records, tour, fame, all this crap. That was worthless, worthless. I was making money. I wasn't happy but I was on like most people a merry go round. And I said, that stops. And I thought, What do you want? What do you really want? What's important? And I said, My music, as an artist and my dog. Why? Because that's who I am, and what I love. And the third part, and this is what I teach, know what matters why, and what's your plan. And my plan was, I'm getting the hell out of Kansas. And I'm going to go to beautiful sunny San Diego. And I'm going to live my life as a bohemian dulcimer playing artist hippie. And I don't care who says it's right or wrong. Now I could not afford to move to San Diego, San Diego is a very expensive and beautiful place to live, as is California. So what I did, and this is the reason I became a life coach is I thought, You know what you created this dream career when you were 13. So you can create a another dream and walk out of the one you're in and into that. That's exactly what I did. I saw who I was, I felt who I was, I knew who this guy Kevin was going to be. And I called a friend who was a realtor here in San Diego. And I said I need a one bedroom apartment with parking and laundry for $1,000 a month. And he he said he said you can't get a closet. I found exactly what I wanted. He didn't know how I did it. Nobody knew I could do it. And I said I know exactly how I did it. And it's not a secret. And this is what I love to teach people when I coach. First thing you need to know is what you don't want. In life. Most people don't even know that. They're in jobs and relationships and a life that they don't like. But they think there's no way out when there is because everything is the mind. And the second thing is you need to create it, believe it feel it. And though you may physically not be in that position, or that place at that very moment, physically, you're there mentally. And this is proven, even with a simple, simple exercise that your listeners and you can do right now, if you imagine you're taking a glass of water, you're drinking a glass of water, you can almost feel that it's wet and cool, right? So now you're putting the glass down, I want you to take a lemon and squeeze it into your mouth and tell me what you feel.
Arwen Bardsley:puckering, sensation. Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin Roth:So your body is responding to your mind. You don't have a lemon in your mouth. But you're salivating. So that's the principle that I teach that it works. Envision yourself wherever you want to be doing whatever you want, believe it and put your mind there because the mind doesn't know whether it's real or not. It just knows what you feel. It's epigenetics. It's the body mind connection. And this is all science. So life to me, besides music is spiritual, and metaphysical and scientific and psychology. So it's a choice.
Arwen Bardsley:So it seems to me from what just you mentioning a couple of things about, you know, having a vision when you were three years old, that you've always been very much working with that level of energy of, you know, on that spiritual plane. So potentially, it's easier for you to do these things to make these changes in your mind than it is for some people and I absolutely agree with you that it's possible for everyone. But yeah, do you do you have any comments about that? And you know, how, up until this point, had you tapped into your that spiritual part of life?
Kevin Roth:Well, since I was a young kid, really, as early as I can remember, I just had the sense that this life wasn't real. That there was this substratum God Jesus, Buddha, Moses, Mohammed whatever it was, it wasn't this. I felt like I had been dropped off for the summer at a camp that I didn't sign up for. And I wanted out. I didn't want to be here. I wasn't suicidal, but didn't want to be here. But I knew that I had to learn something. So you know, the saying I'm a spiritual being having a human experience really applies. And My whole life had been searching for that we all have what I call the longing. It's I'm actually in the process of writing a book about it. The longing is that we long to be loved. We long to be home. And if you listen to the near death experiences on YouTube or read books, and these are not by wacko woo woo people, these are brain surgeons, psychologists, hundreds of 1000s of these things have been studied. When people have near death experiences when they die temporarily, in a hospital or wherever they have an experience of leaving their body and going to this place, and feeling unbelievable. love and acceptance and no judgment. And they feel that it is home. Everybody says it's home. And I didn't want to come back to Earth. But I was because I had more things to do. And it's fascinating. And that's when I always saw it as a kid that there was home. And this wasn't it. And I was in search my whole life for it. You know, when I first saw the dulcimer the girl who was playing the dulcimer, she was getting out of the music field because she had found a spiritual teacher who taught about God, he was a Sufi. And because I was attracted to the dulcimer and my friend Anne, I ended up at 13 watching and listening to a guru. So this was a whole setup. This is a setup in life, the whole cancer was a setup the reason that I became a personal coach and thank thank you God, I'm told that I'm good at it is because everything up to now has led me to this point in time and everything that you know we go through now leads us further. So spiritually, and musically and everything I even even the people I've been attracted to like Peter, Paul and Mary, you guys know who they are, right? The folk singing group. I was just diehard fan. And I just always saw myself being buddies with them, at 15 and 16 you know. So they became friends. They recorded with me, they were my mentors. I just in fact heard from Peter about a song I wrote about the Ukraine. A song that I posted on my YouTube channel. I think it's called Song for Ukraine, it's under Kevin Roth. But if you listen to Peter, Paul and Mary, you got to listen a little bit past leaving on a jet plane and Puff the Magic Dragon. They're very spiritual group. They didn't know it. Paul knew it, Paul Stookey knew it. He became a born again Christian. But their music is very spiritual. Because they cared about life and love and liberty and, and they sang a lot of spiritual songs. But I don't think they were aware of it. Of course, they hit a level of fame, which is I don't know how you can be normal that famous but they managed to be. So people like that Judy Collin's very spiritual kind of singer. I think all artists are Everything I was attracted to had that magnetism to it.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. Yeah, I was just going to say that I think, you know, playing music and probably any art is, you know, you it's just taking you to that, more to that level that, you know, the general person on the street possibly isn't living their life at that level. That really, is why we're here to get to get to that level is what I believe anyway. I loved Puff the Magic Dragon as a kid. Oh, my goodness.
Kevin Roth:I did a duet with Peter on that on an album of mine called dinosaurs and dragons. He was sweet enough to sing a duet of it with me.
Arwen Bardsley:Oh, yeah, yeah, we had we had an album when I was growing up that had that on it, amongst many other, you know, songs of the same generation. But yeah, it was one of my favorites. So was it in that year where you were waiting to see if the cancer came back that you've made all the changes you made to your life or was kind of after you got the all clear that you went right, I've got to change things permanently. Tell me more about that process.
Kevin Roth:No, I made it during that year, because if I was going to die, and eventually I will, as everyone will. I didn't want to die like that. I wanted to die spiritually enlightened. I wanted to know where I was going, where did I come from? What is all this stuff about So I you know, it was a series of very strange events. But while I was in my apartment in Kansas, I found a movie on Netflix about guru named Yogananda. I had kind of heard of, and I watched it twice. And something said, you should look for the Self Realization fellowship of his. And I thought, well, there's no way in Kansas, there's going to be one I knew there was one in California and probably New York. But I had this inner nudge to keep looking. And lo and behold, there was one literally, almost across the street from my apartment. The only one in the Midwest. So I went there, very frightened in a lot of fear with the cancer. And although I'm not a follower of Yogananda, his teachings, which was self realization, were very comforting, and made me want to Google something called self realization. And I discovered a teacher by the name of Ramana Maharshi. And upon reading his work, it was similar to hearing the dulcimer for the first time, I absolutely knew that what this guy taught was true. And from there, I discovered a guy in California, Robert Wolf, who wrote a book on non duality in Ramana, and he became my mentor, friend spiritually. So basically, what Ramana is teaching is is not very different from Jesus, or Buddha. Ramana says, basically, the whole thing is a question. Who am I? And the answer is, I am. What did you so I have a lot of people who are Christians that say, Well, you know, until you find Jesus, you are going to be sent to Hell. Yeah. And I say, I like Jesus. You know, be still and know that I'm God. Be in this world, but not of it. It's the same thing. Same thing Ramana says. Buddhists say, Why don't you believe that you should believe Buddha, I don't believe Buddha, no mind, no problem. Everything leads back to the same point that we are what we're seeking. And quantum physics tells you that there's nothing that exists that this life is a dream. It's science. And all the spiritual texts, whether they're very, very old, like the Upanishads, or they're Jesus's teaching, they all tell you this life is an illusion. So just by inductive logic, what are we worried about? I want to own another house, I want more money, I want more fame, I need another and we're chasing our tails. Looking for happiness looking to be loved. And it's very, very simple. When people say to me, Well, yeah, but what do you do to feel happy? I hike? Hiking is my Church,
Arwen Bardsley:Me too. Yeah.
Kevin Roth:You know, Monday through Thursday, I don't answer the phone unless I need to. I don't talk to people. I go hiking with my dog and my dulcimer and my flute. That's great. I'm happier now than I've ever been. Thank God, I'm a successful coach so I can pay the bills. But if you gave me a five room mansion, I wouldn't take it. I don't want to clean it. I want nothing to do with it, I just like it simple. And I think people who become spiritually evolved or minimalist. You just learn that less is more and you like it? So you know, that's, that's how I roll.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. So what did you do? What changes did you make for your physical body in that time?
Kevin Roth:Well, the first thing I did is I changed my diet, because stress and inflammation causes cancer. And I was overweight. So I changed my diet. I cut out negative people. I made a deal with the credit card companies that I was going to pay $20 A month no matter how much I owed because I was in a great deal of debt due to a project I had invested in which didn't work out. And if they said to me, Well, we're gonna report you to the credit agency, I would say okay, well, I'll be dead in a year. So do you want the $20 or don't you? Oh, I'm so sorry, sir. Okay, well, we'll make it and everything was paid off eventually. And I spent a lot of time in contemplation and prayer. Thinking, tell me what it's basically a state of surrender? Like, you know, if, if my time is now what do I need to know, before I leave? You know, and it was all shown it was shown through Yogananda, it was shown through Ramana Maharshi. I could find it in Jesus, I could find it in Buddha. I didn't really want to hear it. I wanted to do what I thought was better, which was yeah but how am I going to pay the bills, but yet, so I was still hooked into the material world because I hadn't evolved enough at that point. I didn't know enough at that point. I eventually got it. And right, towards the end of the year, I went into my oncologist's office. And I said, I was going to move to California. And he said, you know, we should probably do a CAT scan and, and I said, Well, what, why? What would you do with that? And he said, well, we'd know if there was something. And I said, Well, if there's something is there a cure? And he said, No. And I said, What am Why do I want to know? And he said, to plan your life, and I said, What life because this past year, no that's not my life. So I'm going to go to California. If I'm sick, if I find a lump, I'll find an oncologist. And I'll decide what to do from there. But I'm not doing this year. Again. This was a major spiritual bootcamp. I'm not doing this again. I'm exhausted. And I got in my jeep with 16 dulcimers, and my dachshund, and some clothes and I drove three days out to California, almost in a fog. I couldn't believe it. I thought, what are you going to do when you get there. But I just trusted that I needed to be here. And I got here. And it was a bit of a struggle the first year because I had to kind of get sort of a job for the first time in my life. Because the music business had imploded for everybody. People were downloading music for free, people weren't really paying for concerts unless you were a big name. So I happen to know a good deal and I had many, many years ago learned massage therapy, which came in handy so I did that. And I all those wonderful oils. They look like essential oils on your shelf?
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yep. Yep, that's right.
Kevin Roth:You know, how wonderful massage is and that sustained me. And then I got really, really, really, really happy. And I wrote I think the one of the best albums of my life called the Deviant Dulcimerist. And it ended up sort of in the in the running for a Grammy.
Arwen Bardsley:Oh, wow!
Kevin Roth:I didn't get there. But I love that record. And then I started to sing again. And then out of the blue, someone said, You ought to teach what you did to overcome melanoma and change your life. And I said, Well, how, how would I teach something like that? And they said, well, they have life coaches, and I said, What's the life coach? And they explained it to me, and I Googled it. And I thought, God, you know, half these people look crazy to me. But my friend said, Yeah, but you actually reinvented your life and it worked. And you play the dulcimer in such a meditative style. Why don't you teach people how to play the dulcimer how to play dulci meditation if they play the dulcimer great if they don't, the dulcimer is easy to learn it's not that expensive, and you can teach it through zoom all around the world. And that's how this began.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay. And you mentioned before we started recording that you were working with someone in Australia also to help you. Can you tell me about that?
Kevin Roth:Oh, yes, yes. I found this woman online, Prudence Sinclair. And she had been given a death, a melanoma stage 4 death sentence. And she did what I did that she said, No, no, you're wrong. And she went away. And she meditated, and she re envisioned her life. And I called her and I asked her if she would help me know what to do. And she has a course that you can buy I didn't buy it. I bartered with her music and I said to her that I more than I mean what she was telling me to do. I had already figured out spiritually and diet. I knew all that I needed to talk to someone who has been through it. I didn't want to talk to any more people that said you need to find Jesus or You need to go to Mexico and have caffeine, things injected into your rectum. I needed to talk to someone who said, I had stage three or stage four, this is how I did it. There's no guarantee that it'll work for you. But I'm pretty damn sure it will. And that's what she did for me. And I understood what she said, Because I had used that to create my music career. I've used that to sustain my life. I never thought about doing anything like healing my body, because there was never anything wrong with me. But you know, everyone has cancer in them. And you need to understand everyone needs to understand epigenetics, they need to understand the mind body connection. So, again, she fell into my life at the right time. And I honestly believe that the reason I didn't die, that I beat, the odds was to do what we're doing today was to teach this. So that's why I say it's not about my music or fame anymore. It's about helping people's lives change. You know, when I, when I finish working with a client, and they have tears in their eyes, because their lives have changed, not because I was such a great coach, but because they did the work and I guided them. That's better than standing ovation. I mean it to see people's lives change. And to know that it's all channeled, but it's not me doing it. So it's a it's a mystical, magical thing. It really is.
Arwen Bardsley:And yeah, I mean, that can be quite difficult to teach, I guess. I mean, I suppose if people are open to it it makes it or anything's easier to teach if someone's open to it. But yeah, it's kind of very intangible, isn't it?
Kevin Roth:Well, if people want to work with me there, they go to my website, Kevin roth.org. And there's a form that they fill out. And I look at those very carefully. Because I don't care how much money you put into my pocket. If you're not going to do the work, I'm not working with you. Because I don't think about clients for the 45 or 50 minutes, once a week, I carry you guys around with me all week long, which is why I only work with a certain number. If I see a video, if I have a thought, I'll email you and get it to you. My goal is that if you do what I suggest you do, and we work together, and I just follow you, I find out where you're coming from, and what you need. And I use my instinct and my, I sort of have an empathic kind of way of working with people, you will change. I've only had one client, that that it was a very disappointing thing. Because she did not want to look at certain things in her life because she wasn't ready. She thought she was. But you know, I don't want to look at it. I don't want to go there. I don't want to you know, you know, I just want to do what you did. You know, just snap my fingers.
Arwen Bardsley:Give me the Step by step. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Roth:And it'san unfolding. It's, I call it a slow drip. Yes, it's a step by step. But once you get it, once you get what I'm teaching you. It works, because it's just logical. It's all about the mind. So once you understand that, and how that works, and you believe in what you want to do, and you create that life, in your mind. It's like, feeling that lemon in your mouth. How it happens. I have no idea. How does anything happen. I mean, this whole universe is infinite. There's no middle beginning or end to it. It's bizarre. You know, we live with our jobs and our families and our daily events. We don't think that the universe is expanding into what? Nothing. It's all dark matter. We don't go there because we can't wrap our heads around it. So we stay where we are, which is an illusion, that's all
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. So before your diagnosis. Were you did you already have, excuse me, a strong meditation kind of practice for yourself?
Kevin Roth:No. I didn't like meditation, and I still don't do meditation. I do what I guess I when I play the dulcimer, I kind of tune into just nothingness. I do a walking meditation where I do inner listening. But I sitting with my legs folded and doing breathing and all that stuff is not my thing. But I get the same results when I hike or when I'm playing the dulcimer in a meditative style. I just, I get there, I find the answers. Silence is very loud. If you shut up long enough to listen to it. Most people can't sit for five minutes and have a cup of tea without checking their cell phone. So the answers are there. You know, the answers are there. You just have to listen to it. It's your inner voice. And you know, the teacher when the students ready the teacher shows up. So some people meditate, meditate, like you know you do and it's a value some people chant some people hike. Some people play dulcimer.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. So let's go into the dulci meditation, then. What, what is it?
Kevin Roth:So I'm going to, let's see, I'm going to try this. There we go. So you can see this. So the dulcimer has, you know, four strings, and they're basically two of them or chain or two in the same. And then there's an octave. And then there's a fifth. And the scale is very simple. So it's not chromatic, like the piano or guitar. So dulci meditation is simply breathing slowly, and deeply, and letting go and asking your inner guidance, what do I need to know, and then just doing things like this. So it's that kind of thing. The difference between listening to meditation, music and playing it is that when you play the dulcimer, you feel the vibration of the wood on your lap. And if you play very, very simply, which is what I teach people over zoom during our sessions, there's not much to do. In fact, less is more. So you're literally you just have to get it in tune, which is not a big deal. They have tuning instruments for that. And then you just strum it gently. And don't think about whether you're doing it right, wrong or indifferent. No one's there, but you and you space out, you kind of fall down the rabbit hole of dulcimer music. And that's how people do it.
Arwen Bardsley:So it's Yeah, because I assumed it was, listening. But it's it's actually the act of playing the instrument that is the meditative state.
Kevin Roth:Yes, you you can I do have an album called dulci meditation, which you can just listen to. It has its own with a background of the rain. Very relaxing. I fall asleep to it many times. And you can do that. But if you're looking to learn a musical instrument that's beautiful and simple, and designed sort of for meditation. That's why I created the wink. It has planets for sound holes. So it's a reminder that we're not who we think we are. We're, you know, we are stardust as Joni Mitchell wrote. And it's an easy instrument to play and when you're not playing it, you can hang it on the wall. It looks beautiful, like the one behind me.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, it does look beautiful. I do astrology as well. So it's yeah, that's the dulcimer for me.
Kevin Roth:Yes. Do we need to get you an astrological dulcimer? Yeah,
Arwen Bardsley:yeah, yeah. Okay. So I guess I'd just like for you to feel like you've made it clear what you know, I suppose it's about what kinds of situations or people or whatever, tend to seek you out for your life coaching or what? What kinds of people, I know you've said the people who are ready to do the work. Absolutely. But is there any particular kind of client that you're looking for?
Kevin Roth:Well, I, my clients are medical doctors, they're clergy, they're professionals, they're housewives, what I find ends up happening is that someone hears me, or hears of me. And something resonates in them, like, oh, I need to check that out. And they do. And they go to my website, Kevinroth.org. And they fill out a form and they ask for a free 30 minute zoom consultation. And then I'll know within the first five minutes, whether we're a match. And if I don't think we are, I'll guide you to some other place or some other person. And yeah, that's how that people find me, you know, in the coaching business, because it's a business now, there are people who want to be Rockstar coaches, you know, they want to make 100,000 a month, and they want to do all this stuff. I don't have any interest in, I have interest in working with the people that I'm supposed to work with, and who are supposed to work with me. And the money comes in, the money shows up. And that's those are the people that find me. You know, I've done a lot. You know, it's funny, I've done a number. I like doing podcasts. One day, I have my own podcast show, but several of my clients are actual people who've interviewed me for
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've done a lot of things with people that I've interviewed. It's, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I'm the same as you. I believe that. Well, I believe that I interview the people I do for a reason as well. And, you know, it just seems to work out that you find the right people to connect with in every aspect of life
Kevin Roth:Yeah. It's a very funny thing. You know, I had written down this appointment in my book, and I forgot to look. And last night at three ish in the morning, which is usually when people wake up, I woke straight up and something said, you have something to do tomorrow, you need to know about, and I thought, Oh, my God, what is it and I looked on my phone, where the my mail comes in, I thought, I have this interview. So this interview has happened before. before it happened. That's how it is. It's fascinating. When you get into the metaphysical and the spiritual. Understanding that this is just a dream and how it kind of works. It's a blast.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, it's funny. My son calls it a simulation. He says we're all just in a simulation. He's 19
Kevin Roth:Wouldn't doubt it. Wouldn't it in a moment.
Arwen Bardsley:yeah. So can you just tell me the name of the album with the dulci meditation music and, rain
Kevin Roth:um, if you want, my website has the album kevinroth.org It has information on the wink dulcimers it has the information on what I do and how I do it. So everything can be found there. It's not a physical CD. It's just a download. It's called dulcimeditation.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay. Yep.
Kevin Roth:I also have a course on teachable. So I think you kevinroth.teachable.com and eight modules of what I do as a coach, you know, condensed and in that. I talk a little bit about the dulcimer meditation dulci meditation, but I will eventually do a dulci meditation course.
Arwen Bardsley:But that course is basically a coaching course.
Kevin Roth:Yes, yes. It's called something like how to create the life you love or something. I forget what I called it. But it's been very well received. So that's good. Yeah, work heavy lifting. You know, it's, it's, you know, there's exercises to do.
Arwen Bardsley:Yep. But and so is that all just self paced? Yes. And there's no you know, interaction with you doing that, just an online? Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Roth:But you can reach out to me. "I'm on module Six or seven, and I have a question" and I'll answer you.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's a good you know, kind of introduction to your style. And, you know, what, what, people would know what they're going to be getting into if they want to go into more coaching with you.
Kevin Roth:Yeah, actually, these podcasts really tell you, you know who I am and you Get all that stuff in what my story is?
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, absolutely. And listening to someone for kind of 45 minutes, you know whether you're going to gel with them or not. So it's a great way for you to reach out to people. And do you have any particular you know, special programs or anything other than what you've already mentioned that you wanted to mention to the audience?
Kevin Roth:Well, there's a free five minute stress buster, breathing sort of meditation that I give out free on my website. So if you want to know how to calm your, your mind down within a couple minutes, how I learned that was interesting, I was doing a really big concert in the states with the Philadelphia Orchestra. And this was maybe 20 years into my career, and I've never had stage fright. And this, I was petrified of. So I went to a psychologist and I said, I am afraid, something tells me that I could just freak out. And so she taught me this breathing, exercise, breathing and holding your breath and letting it out and counting. And it really saved me because I was on the side of the stage. It was a full house was an opera house must have been 2000 people. And the Philadelphia Orchestra was in back of me, I was soloing, you know, they're one of the most wonderful and famous orchestras in the world. So if there was a time for me to freak out, that was it. But I got through it, and I've used it ever since. You know, I'm a pretty calm guy. But if I need to quiet down or calm down, it takes me less than five minutes, and I give that away for free on the website.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay, well, thank you for that. That's really,
Kevin Roth:you know, it's interesting that you brought up about concerts, because I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna be giving anymore. And just the other day, I had this impression that no, you're going to start going out there and singing again, in connection with this. So I'm open to doing like, conferences, or church programs, or retreats or things like. Which so far all my coaching has been to zoom, mostly because of COVID.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. I think we've all just gotten into living our life on Zoom, haven't we?
Kevin Roth:Yeah. But what I do is very different than anybody else, because it's my own experience. And I only teach from experience. I don't, I haven't taken a coaching course on how to coach.
Arwen Bardsley:Ah. Yeah, I'm meant to ask you that. Okay.
Kevin Roth:Yeah, I don't study that stuff. I work with what I know. So if I tell you to do something, it's because I've experienced it, and it's worked. Also, the kind of a coach that will tell you of my own screw ups, which is unknown in the coaching business. I'll tell you, you know, I had a really difficult week this week, and this is what happened to me. And the lesson of it was I learned to yada yada, yada, yada, yada.
Arwen Bardsley:This is what not to do. Yeah.
Kevin Roth:Yeah. And because even though on some level, I know a great deal, and I've helped a lot of people and certainly overcome a lot in life. I'm still you know, a human guy. That's, you know, yeah. So, I think it's important to be real with people. I do focus on you. I mean, I don't you know, you're it's about you. So the whole session isn't about me. But I'm not afraid to tell people, you know, what I've learned in a really wonderful way or in a not so wonderful way. Yeah. You know, there was a I was just telling a client the other day that I was about to cross this bridge, this wooden bridge on a creek. I mean, I thought it was a creek, and I started to go there, start to walk on it. There's no one else around, it was out in the middle of really nowhere and something said, Do not go on there. And my dog who never goes in front of me, happened to walk on that and one of the planks caved in. And he like sunk. He got out but I thought and there was like a nails I mean, it was a really, it was a it was a wooden little crossing bridge that should be destroyed and rebuilt. When you have when I teach this thing, mindful awareness, if you learn to tune into things that are subtle, you listen to that warning, like the voice says don't go on that bridge. And then you think well, why? And then suddenly your dog does something it never does. And it falls into the water. Just you know, for a little quick bolk and then back out. You look at that, and you say, ah, isn't that amazing? Rather than, Oh my God, it's a lesson. So I was talking to my clients that last week, I said, you know, you need to pay attention to your inner voice, because it's guiding you all the time.
Arwen Bardsley:I just think we're so genuinely out of touch with our inner voice.
Kevin Roth:Yeah, it's a shame, because it's a blast. You know, I mean, if there's no psychedelic in the world, I can have the experiences that I've had, especially, especially with some of the spiritual stuff, like, we won't get into it today. But there's something called a Agata, A-g-a-t-a, which is unbelief, it means that nothing exists. And science actually proves that. So when you start to understand this stuff, and you get to comprehend it, and experience it, it's like living in the twilight zone. You can't unknow it, you know, like, you couldn't go back to who you were 20 years ago. Right. We couldn't be that person. So it's fascinating. And we become addicted to this miraculous, spiritual fantasy thing that goes on. And that's what interests us.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I certainly don't think that the whole I mean, smartphones and just all the, the distraction, we have so much distraction. And that, you know, I mean, it doesn't help with your day to day stuff, but it also is so distracting from that inner voice.
Kevin Roth:Yeah, that's why I shut the world down Monday through Thursday. Until Thursday afternoon when I start coaching. It's wonderful.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, exactly. That that is wonderful. Yeah, I would like to do that as well. And I know, you'd say well, you can do it. So yes I can. When it's the right thing for me to do, I will do it. Okay, so I think that is all that I wanted to ask you, Kevin, um, you know, such a fascinating story, and really interesting conversation. So I know that everybody will get a lot out of it. And you've mentioned your website. So it's Kevin roth.org. Is that right? Yep. And we'll certainly put links to that. Oh, that's the only other thing I just wanted you to just talk a little bit about your song for the Ukraine, just because it's pretty topical right now.
Kevin Roth:Well, you know, I'm not a political song writer. Peter, Paul and Mary were very political. And were my mentors and roots. And Peter always wanted to be me to be an activist. And I'm more of a spiritualist. But this guy, Putin infuriates me, even though I know he's an illusion. But I think that it's very interesting that his demonic head has brought the world together in a way that we've never seen. And it was eating at me, and I thought, you know, you need to get this out. So write the song. And there was a very precise song that basically said that, you know, we're gonna keep fighting. And we believe in our freedom. And, you know, all you care about is greed. And that you'll probably be taken out because of greed. You know, which, to me can't happen anytime soon. sooner. But God help us who takes his place if anyone, but I recorded it. I read the lyrics as I sang it. So it wasn't a fancy production. And I posted it on my website, and on Facebook. And people started to spread it around. And I sent it actually to Peter, who rarely answers any emails, because he's always so busy. And he wrote back a lovely email that said, you know, I'm proud of you for writing the song and, you know, you have such humanity. You know, you know, Mary passed away many years ago, but you know, he's often said, Mary would be very proud of your work, I adored Mary. So it was a wonderful thing from that point, because I felt that my full relationship musically and emotionally and spiritually mentally came full circle, and Peter was delighted. And then someone posted a comment on Facebook about the song and then they sent it to someone in Ukraine. And then they started to spread it around in Ukraine a little bit. So I mean, I didn't do it. In fact, they say that if you like the song, donate money to these charities, I don't make any money off it. But it's something I did. Because it came from my heart and I do everything authentically. I don't you know, you can hear it, you can hear it in my voice. I mean, I'm, I'm musically delightfully pissed. By but I felt really much better healed. And I was able to kind of let it go. I don't watch the news every day about it. I know that this guy in my gut tells me this guy will go down. Something good will come of this. I you know, the great mystery. Why do people have to die and all these other things? I mean, there's lots of answers to that. The one I like is that, you know, this was a predestined arrangement, and that there was a cause, and you know, what we think it is? It's not really anyway. But still, um, it's a very, very tough situation. It's an illusion, for sure. It's not really happening. But in the dream, it's a tough, tough situation. And I think that my song, certainly by recording it and writing it in a sense, healed me, and the comments on YouTube are very similar, you know, thank you for writing it. And, you know, the world's really supporting each other, which is phenomenal.
Arwen Bardsley:So is YouTube, the best place for people to listen to it?
Kevin Roth:Yeah, yeah. If you just type in song for Ukraine, I'll look it up just to be sure that that's the right title. And the other thing that I realized about this, interestingly enough, was Oh it's called song for Ukraine. And, you know, what I'll do is I'll send you a link, okay. And we can put it on there is that the younger generation now is saying, We've had it with the old farts, we've had it with your wars, we've had it with your greed, you know, we want to house we want a right to live. You know, here in the United States, right now, real estate is insane. I was watching the show and a corporate guy who, who buys all these houses and rents them proudly said, Oh, we feel really bad for people that can't afford to buy. But you know, the American Dream used to be owning a home, the American dream now is being able to rent and I thought you bastard, how dare you know, so. But that's a really negative thing that you know, when things like that come, I erase them quickly, because I can live in anywhere, any place at any time I want. And I know I can create it. In fact I'm working on a little nice little place now in my mind. So I don't pay attention to that. But the younger generation around the world is saying, We don't want any nuclear stuff. We don't care about you guys having $16,000 bedrooms, you know, we want to live and they're gonna they're outstaying these old guys. And they're saying, you know, I mean, a lot of Russians, a lot of Russians don't like this war. And they get imprisoned for it. So but in the end, like the saying says, and I guess this is a good way to wrap up the interview. Everything works out in the end. And if it hasn't worked out, it's not the end.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, we've got to the young people need to deserve to want to have a planet to live on firstly, as well. And that's, you know, the, the huge crisis that I in my mind.
Kevin Roth:And if we want it bad enough, we'll have it.
Arwen Bardsley:Yep. That's right. Well, thank you so much, Kevin. It's been really great. And yeah, it's lovely to meet you. And I'm sure that lots of people will get a lot out of what you had to say and looking looking into all that you're offering. So thank you so much for your time today,
Kevin Roth:No, you're welcome. Stay cool down there.
Arwen Bardsley:We will!